television!

[jazzfish]

I have a vague desire to drown myself in television. Which of these, o lazyweb, would you recommend? (ETA: I've seen none of these except the BSG pilot)

• Babylon 5
  
• Farscape
  
• Battlestar Galactica
  
• Avatar: The Last Airbender
  
• Something else entirely

(No poll because I'm more interested in the Whys.)

Not that this will be happening anytime soon: the next four months or so are kinda busy. But once we get settled I may do something like 'i made my wordcount for the week so i get another episode of X.'

Comments

[jadelennox]

I'm currently re-watching Farscape, so of course I always recommend that. But which of these have you seen before? All, none? If you haven't seen them, Avatar: the last airbender is just so wonderful on the first experience. Admittedly I am speaking as someone who is not fond of animation particularly (of any style), so it was such a pleasure to me to see these beautifully developed characters, this rich world building, in a genre where, when that kind of thing exists, I usually find it difficult to get attached to.

[jazzfish]

Ah, I should have mentioned that. I've seen none of these. (Except the 2-hour pilot movie for BSG.)

And, ooh. Avatar sounds very tasty indeed.

[mycroftca]

Babylon 5.

[jazzfish]

My main reservations about B5 are 1) that it may not have aged well and 2) the mess of compacting the season 4+5 story into season 4, and then unexpectedly being at loose ends for season 5. Well, that plus the length.

[(Anonymous)]

I will add to the recommendations for Avatar- I own it through amazon, so I could even give you one of my allotted downloads if you want the full series. It is wonderful.

[tam_nonlinear]

The offer would probably be more meaningful if I logged in and let you know who it was coming from first.

[rbandrews]

House of Cards. You already own it, it's much shorter than the rest (so it doesn't have to be an exclusive choice, you can watch it in a couple evenings) and it's better written than any of the others.

Plus it has to do with British government, like all good television and movies.

[jazzfish]

If I'm going to watch television I already own I'm going to start with the last season of Due South. But yeah, I need to actually watch House of Cards sometime. (Plus, Ian Richardson!)

Which reminds me, In The Loop was also based on a BBC-TV series...

[marcmagus]

I always say Babylon 5, although those are some excellent alternatives.

B5: You have to push through the first season not really coming together (but I'm finding it more enjoyable on rewatch as I can see what everything is setting up for), but it's really worth it. My understanding is that Season 4 didn't get changed all that much due to the impending doom except some details of the last episode...Season 5 was apparently always intended to be more or less what it was, for good or ill.

Farscape is an excellent show which I really need to watch again. I decided it was good when every time in the first handful of episodes I shouted at the screen, either someone on-screen said the same thing I had or my objection was addressed at some point.

BSG is an excellent miniseries + 2 seasons. The second half was good only for providing an excuse for me to spend time with a friend; it was all setup for a complete lack of payoff.

I'm working my way through Avatar right now and enjoying it but not amazed.

I appear to have overused the word "excellent" above, and am amused enough at my poor writing to let it stand and comment.

[marcmagus]

Shorter me: None of the four would be a wrong decision, although you might regret the second half of BSG, and might find getting into B5 difficult but will probably find it worth the payoff if you press on.

[skreidle.livejournal.com]

Definitely Farscape; loved S1 of BSG but haven't seen any since.

[jazzfish]

Farscape is particularly tempting now that it's finally available again.

Why'd you give up on BSG?

[silmaril.livejournal.com]

I can recommend Avatar: TLA because a) it's the only one of that list that I have seen anything of, b) once it hits its stride it's sweet, nice, high quality and worth watching, and c) The episodes are only 20 minutes or so long, therefore you can take them in two at a time if you're scheduling the regular TV-episode-size chunks for this project.

[jazzfish]

Hm. How long does it take to hit its stride?

I was thinking more 'weekly reward' than 'immediate reward' but there's something to be said for bite-sized immediacy. Hmm.

[jmax315.livejournal.com]

B5. Last TV science fiction I really enjoyed. (In fairness, I've not given either Stargate or the SciFi Dune a try, though).

[jazzfish]

My main reservations about B5 are 1) that it may not have aged well and 2) the mess of compacting the season 4+5 story into season 4, and then unexpectedly being at loose ends for season 5. Well, that plus the length.

You mean the Dune miniseries from *mumble* years ago? It was Not Bad, but very short. I've heard nothing good at all about the sequel and am staying away.

[blaisepascal]

Of the group, I have watched B5 and A:TLA more than the others. I have seen most of BSG, and very little of Farscape.

I am currently rewatching B5 season 1, and I find that it ages fairly well. It's themes are big, and it's world-building was complete enough that it doesn't appear to be a snapshot of early 90's TV. The effects work were ahead of their time, and don't appear too far behind todays work either.

B5 and A:TLA both have the advantage that they appear to have been thought out, beginning to end, before the story started. There is a broad, consistent story arc from beginning to end. I know about the season 4 crunch in B5 (I watched it in real-time, as it were), but I don't feel like JMS ended up pulling important plot details out of his ass. BSG, on the other hand, did feel like they ended up making it up as they went along.

I would recommend B5 or A:TLA for the above reasons.

[jazzfish]

I am really annoyed that BSG reportedly came apart at the seams. I liked the miniseries.

The 'coherent story' is a big part of what I'm looking for. I think the lack of that is why my watching of Due South has petered out. It sounds like Farscape has that as well, from what I've heard.

I think the thing to do is start with Avatar and go from there.

Thanks!

[tango.livejournal.com]

I recommend all of them, own them all, and can loan you any of them.

[jazzfish]

Yeah, Avatar and Farscape are on the list at least partly because I saw the DVDs at your place at one point. :)

You didn't object to the last season or two of BSG?

[ndkid.livejournal.com]

Of the bunch, I consider the overarching plot of B5 to be the least problematic; JMS had an overarching plot he wanted to achieve, and he did so, with one or two major twitches here and there. The fifth season is a bit tacked on, and I don't consider it particularly valuable, and it has the same transcendental ending problems as pretty much every serial sci-fi show, but it also has the benefit of having a bunch of plot pieces you've seen written onto cards before. :-)

[jazzfish]

heh. That /is/ one of the motivators behind including B5 in the list.

[daghain.livejournal.com]

The Wire. Jen and I *love* it, because the writers don't assume you are an idiot. Come by and watch disk 1 with us any time.

[jazzfish]

I've heard a lot of good things about The Wire and it's definitely on my radar. I suspect that it's, mm, grittier? harsher? than what I'm looking for, though.

But, thanks!

well it really depends on what you want from a series

[stormking.livejournal.com]

I think they are all truly excellent(of those ones I'm familar with.. the last airbender I'm not).. I mean really really good.
that off the top of my head I would rank
1. BSG
2. Babylon 5
3. Farscape

however they each have their strengths..
1. BSG is tops in drama I mean just amazing. though It's really tempting not to watch the last episode.. they don't finish great. but ultimately it's not about the story, it's about the human lives and how it unfolds. Fantastic acting.

2. Babylon five just like BSG has a place that it's going to, and I think at least has a more meaningful ending. I would say it's more irreverant than BSG but does have a nice story arc that goes throughout it, and for it's time has nice graphics.. very human perspective, interesting politics.. decent acting

3. Farscape is just fun and pretty with a storyline behind it, but doesn't really have the same kind of depth to it's ultimate ending as the other two, but the variety of alien cultures and also the perspective of forever being on the run is different, perhaps better than BSG on that count.

Re: well it really depends on what you want from a series

[jazzfish]

hmm. Given that I need Story to keep my interest (human drama etc is good but i get tired after N hours) I'll probably go with one of the non-BSG ones. Thanks, though!

[pictsy.livejournal.com]

I have almost religious feelings for Battlestar Galactica. It was really one of the best things ever put on television.

[jazzfish]

Even the ending? I'm skeptical because I've heard a lot of reports about it going downhill, but I really liked the two-hour pilot.

[(Anonymous)]

Hey, this is Kate:

I loved Avatar! I watched it streaming on Netflix, so if you've got that you won't have to worry about returning anyone's disks.

Babylon 5 is also a favorite of mine. I always get hung up on season 5, but there are good episodes in there.

I could never get into Farscape or Battlestar. I'm not sure why Farscape didn't hook me, I felt like it SHOULD have, but didn't. Battlestar just annoyed me, the Cylons may have had a plan, but the writers didn't!

I hope you've seen Firefly. If you haven't, watch it!!

[jazzfish]

Cheers! There's some process involved in "registering" or "confirming" your LJ OpenID account on DW but after that you would be able to post like normal. Or you can just post on LJ and I'll get it there too. Or email me and I'd be happy to provide a real DW invite code...

Based on the good recommendations of Just About Everyone I'm definitely starting with Avatar. I'm starting to get uneasy about Farscape; I'll probably give it a few episodes to grab me but I'm willing to give up on it if it doesn't.

And, <3 <3 <3 Firefly. Maybe I'll just rewatch that. Over and over again...

[shadowsong]

If you're worried that you might not like Babylon 5, I'd recommend following the advice of several Making Light commenters and skip the first season - watch it after you've seen the whole thing.

As for Battlestar Galactica, I STRONGLY recommend reading the TWOP recaps after each episode, and skipping the finale.

[jazzfish]

I'd consider that but I have a huge problem with not Watching ALL The Things. Anything worth doing is worth overdoing and all that.

Oh, wow, I'd forgotten about TWOP. I may just do that for everything. (Well, probably not. But for things I grow tired of halfway through.)

[notmatt]

I would also recommend Futurama and Dead Like Me

[jazzfish]

Futurama is awesome but too much of a good thing. I need forward narrative motion, not just funny. I'm happy to watch it when it's on but I don't think I can make a habit of watching it.

I keep forgetting about DLM. Will add it to The List.

[desfido]

As this is a Lazyweb request, I'm not going to bother reading the responses before writing my own, as I feel like being lazy in writing a response -- however, I did vaguely glance at some of them.

I have watched all of FarScape at least twice with most more (at least one of those viewings occurring during one of my extended bouts of illness over the last year), Avatar once (this summer), and am currently working my way through the episodes of B5 that I haven't seen (prior to this, I had seen all of S1 multiple times, the first half or so of S2 a time or two, some bits from season 4 a time or two, mostly from the end, and some random episodes from Season 5 somewhere between one and four times; I started w/ the beginning of season 2, and now am at like ep 7 or so of season 3). I saw the miniseries of BSG, and the first 2 or 4 eps or so, plus a random additional ep or two; I liked what I saw, and yet have never really bothered to catch up.


So, there's your context for the multiple choice part of the exam.

I therefore feel absolutely confident in saying that of the three series I've seen reasonable chunks of, they are all good, and all remain compelling. To more directly address your "Does B5 seem dated?" comment, while some special effects and whatnot seem dated, many of the issues do not, nor do the characters, and several of them seem *disturbingly* relevant; in fact, one thing *I* find interesting is that I now feel that my original reading of the correspondences of the major powers is probably closer to how many people new to it would view it than they would have at the original airings or when I first saw them (briefly, I feel that in many ways, the Centauri Empire is closer to being a stand-in for the US than the Earth Alliance). Many of the issues are still quite relevant.

Frankly, that kind of applies for some of the other shows as well -- I think that some of the first season FarScape effects are a bit weak (as are, frankly, some of the stories).

Basically, of the three I know well enough to comment on, Avatar is the one which is at the most consistent level of quality. FarScape and B5 both have some real stinkers, especially towards the beginnings of both. However, somewhere in the second half of the first season of each they get pretty damn good on the whole (where one will draw the line in that range seems likely to vary, while the fact that it'll be somewhere in there seems unlikely to vary).

I assume your inclusion of B5 is partially prompted by the recent posts on Making Light. Frankly, the discussion there is worth reading, and will likely be far better appreciated if you have the context of actually having seen the eps. So, I think that's one really solid argument for prioritizing that series.

Also, to my knowledge, B5, 'scape, and Avatar can all be streamed in their entireties on Netflix while BSG can't (well, except for the miniseries for Farscape); if it can, I may finally watch that one myself.

All three are high quality w/ good (voice) acting, interesting arcs and individual episodes, great characters, and at least some compelling visual style elements. So I really don't think you can go wrong. Farscape is probably the most morally complex and emotional, but they all actually go to some darker and unexpected places compared to a lot of other series.

I saw someone mention Dead Like Me. That's quite good as well, and well worth considering. But it's not the same sort of show as any of 3 I know well enough to comment on (which I'm going to abbreviate as T3IKWETCO from now on).

All of T3IKWETCO have some epic-ish aspects to the plot. DLM has a much... smaller perspective on things. That doesn't mean DLM is worse, or better, or anything. Just, if you're in the kind of mood where you'd be reasonably likely to get the most enjoyment out of T3IKWETCO, you're not likely in the kind of mood where you'll get the most enjoyment out of DLM and vice versa. Fuller's other shows, particularly Pushing Daisies, I could sort of see some "mood overlap". But not really DLM.

If, however, you *do* want some random other shows which are watching in their entirety, I'll list some shows which I feel I know enough of to reasonably suggest, even if *I'm* still working through some of them; if you care for me to elaborate more on them, I'll do so, presumably at a time when I'm writing up more on T3IKWETCO, since I have a lot more to say on each of them. In fact, I may finally get around to fucking posting again, just so I can fully comment out what I consider important about T3IKWETCO, since I have a feeling it's either going to be too long or awkward as a comment.

Random other shows to consider: Veronica Mars, The Wire, Wonderfalls, Boardwalk Empire.

If you go into more of why you are considering the ones you are (which perhaps you have, in the other comments, which I'll see after I read them :P ), I have plenty of other shows I can suggest. Because, well, I've watched far too much TV over the years, even if I haven't seen that much for the last half year or so :P .

[jazzfish]

Yeah, this is pretty much exactly what I was hoping to get, so, thank you! (It's also taken me a bit to digest.)

I think the thing to do is to start with Avatar, and then /probably/ try Farscape but more likely see what other people near me are interested in coming over to watch all the way through.

Other notes:

I included B5 because it has a big honking story arc, and because I played the card game for my last few months in B'burg and it intrigued me. The "i should watch tv" idea in general probably came from the ML posts, though.

I don't Netflix, at least not yet, so streaming isn't all that relevant.

I'm unfamiliar with Boardwalk Empire but it looks incredibly awesome. Is it still ongoing?

And for some reason I had written off VM. Possibly because of the ending? Possibly because of problems in later seasons? I don't remember. Meh.

[candle.livejournal.com]

I liked Farscape back when it initially aired, but when I tried watching it again last year, I just thought it had aged poorly compared to the better put together TV of the 200Xs. B5 seemed to handle that better, in that it was a well put together arc (minus the cancellation/renewal issues).

Farscape just left me bored. But I've become increasingly stodgy about my intake of fiction.

[jazzfish]

Farscape isn't one big story? I'd thought it at least had plot that moved forward across episodes.

[salzara-tirwen.livejournal.com]

Babylon 5! (which, wow, I can't believe you've never seen!)
"Why do you want to import a steak?"
"...Research."

Also Avatar.

I haven't seen much of Farscape or any of new BSG.

[jazzfish]

heh. That's the thing, I know these are (arguably) all things I ought to see at some point, I just don't know where to start. But yeah. I've never been much of a TV watcher, and B5 ran when I was trying to not be at home, and then when I was in a dorm. I could have watched it at Apt 6, I guess, but by then it was three seasons in already. And I never really went to Bogens with VTSFFC so I never watched it there either.

[jsciv.livejournal.com]

My recommendations are Avatar > BSG > B5 > Farscape.

I've already outlined why Avatar in my other comments, and if you know me one thing you might remember is that animated TV rarely captures me.

B5 is a whole mess of other stuff outside the show for me, and I might rate it lower because of that, but I would still maintain that the S4/S5 issues mar it.

I wanted to like Farscape, I really did. It has a lot going for it on paper. But in practice every time I watch an episode, about halfway through I feel like I want to just FF to the last few minutes and get it over with. I have no reason why, but I just do.

[jazzfish]

At this point I'm definitely starting with Avatar; I've heard nothing but good things from just about everyone. Will see where it goes from there.

[jsciv.livejournal.com]

Oh, and something else I should mention on a tangentially-related topic of mutual recreation: there is a Battlestar Galactica board game from Fantasy Flight that is one of the BEST hidden-traitor games out there. It's the kind of game that creates epic stories of trust, betrayal and intrigue and it delivers a satisfying gaming experience as well as narrative. The mechanics are basic, but the "who is the Cylon" intrigue is delicious.

While you don't need to have watched the show to appreciate the game, watching the first two seasons of the show does kind of make the game a slightly more in-context experience, so it's worth doing for that.

There are some spoilers inherent in the game for the first season, some minor spoilers for season 3 inherent in the Pegasus expansion, and some spoilers for seasons 3 and 4 inherent in the Exodus expansion.

[jazzfish]

While I've heard a lot of good things about the game, it hasn't quite grabbed me. I think I've not been in the mood for an 'experience' game with the people who've been playing at the times it's been played. I /think/ I'd like to try it at some point... but then there's the Lord of the Rings problem: I have no idea what I'm doing for the first N games and am flailing around / being shepherded.

I do miss playing Werewolf-style games, though.

[jameshroberts.livejournal.com]

I found B5 to be awesome, though I'll admit it probably hasn't aged well. Season 1 is kind of slow, and the writing and acting wasn't great compared to the rest of the series. You could try it the way I did. Have your first episode be the Season 3 finale. It certainly made me want to go back and catch up! Season 5 is actually pretty good. The 4-5 transition is a little jarring for reasons others have described. And the telepath arc makes me want to hurt myself. But the second half of that season is pretty good. Oh, and Neil Gaiman wrote one of the eps.

Farscape, I thought was solid. Definitely worth a shot, though I wouldn't necessarily re-watch that one the way I do with B5.

BSG was a disappointment. It started out with such potential, but the writers wrote themselves into a corner halfway through and didn't know how to fix it. Here's my take (parodying the introduction)

The Cylons were created by Man.
They rebelled.
They evolved.
There are many Cylons.
And they have a plan...

But the writers don't.

[jazzfish]

heh. Given the choice I think I'll at least try to consume my media in order. I've played the B5 CCG enough that I'm sufficiently curious about the universe to last me through a few subpar episodes at the beginning.

That pretty much jibes with what I've heard elsewhere about BSG. I'm really impressed by how polarizing the series seems to be.