"Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure he is obeying your will?"

[jazzfish]

I occasionally get asked why I want to flee. My stock answer is "health care," which is true as far as it goes. If pressed I might go into the more general concept of a social safety net, and the idea that taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilised society.

All of that? After-the-fact rationalization. This is the real reason. And more. And. . . hell, just read most of yesterday and today's posts from Digby.

By May 2004 it was obvious that these sorts of things were going on, and were sanctioned by the government. And in November 2004 a majority of Americans said that was okay by them.

But everything changed in 2008, right? No. Nothing changed. Change would be at the very least a clear statement that these things were Wrong, that those responsible would be punished, and that safeguards would be put in place to ensure that nothing like this would happen again. Instead we get the lie that "The United States does not torture," reassurances that no one will be prosecuted, and no changes.

I have no use for people who can't or won't say, "This is wrong."

(There's a longer, more personal, post gestating on why I take this so personally. Or maybe not; it may end up being too personal to share at all. The heavily shortened version is that powerlessness, and abuses of power, are highly triggery things for me.)

Comments

[pictsy.livejournal.com]

This is how I feel about animal testing and vivisection.

[jazzfish]

I can understand that. It's something I've not yet forced myself to consider. (I can also understand if you consider that to be ethically irresponsible.)

[vond.livejournal.com]

"Forced myself to consider" is a good term, all this racism/sexism stuff in my face lately has given me some really uncomfortable thoughts, and this is the same way. That way lies self-hatred :(

[jazzfish]

I'd really like to respond to this, but I'm not sure where to begin. Other than, at least in my experience with unconscious racism/sexism, it's more about admitting where I've screwed up and trying not to do that again ("Fail better"), rather than sinking into the "no use even trying, I'm doomed" morass.

I'd be happy to kick around thoughts on either or both at some point.

[pictsy.livejournal.com]

I don't even really consider it as much as I feel I should. It's one of those things in the back of my mind that I assure myself I'll take more action on someday.

[ancientsong.livejournal.com]

This!